It does seem, on the face of it, that Ferrari will walk to the 2008 title. With McLaren in a state of flux, they could be struggling to hold on to 2nd best.

I see no reason why BMW can't get a bit closer to the top. My main concern is that they don't seem to make big leaps. It was very much maintaining the difference last season.

Red Bull with 24 extra points would be above Williams but 3 points behind Renault. It's not too bad for Red Bull as McLaren have been thrown down to the other end of the pit lane so they are about where they are. Newey cars have always been unreliable but if they can cure it, they are damn quick.

I think Alonso is right to say Renault won't be chasing any titles in 2008 but Renault might go back to building an Alonso type car, which might creep them up a bit.

Williams will continue to be where they are and will continue to chuck bits at the car in the hope something works.

I think Honda will be back in the pack behind Ferrari. With the findings not so long ago (which I had said when the car rolled out and underperformed) that the wind tunnel was giving misleading results and with a reshaped team, I think they can move up.

The interest will be for the last podium place next season and hoping a Ferrari or 2 have problems with reliability. Unless some team tries something radical, I can't see Ferrari being challenged.

Seems they have halted development on three areas of the car, presumably in an effort to prove that no Ferrari info will go into the design.

Now that they're clear to compete next season I don't think sponsorship will be a problem. I can see them dropping back from Ferrari and possibly even fighting with BMW & Renault for second best behind the reds.

Can BMW keep up their rate of improvement? They've taken big steps in each of their previous two years, but they can sustain that rate of improvement, can they? Perhaps next year will be more of a plateau - continuing with podiums but remaining winless?

Red Bull have said that they have to work on reliability. It cost them about 24 points this year, which would have put them ahead of Williams I think (off the top of my head).

Could be a Ferrari runaway with a tight fight between McLaren/BMW/Renault/Red Bull/Williams(?) for the best of the rest.

Things are looking bleak at McLaren. Their recent internal investigation has led to McLaren issuing an apology, basically admitting that the McLaren car did contain Ferrari technology and that the 2008 car also contains Ferrari technology. An FIA report really nails them to the wall.

The apology looks to have saved McLaren more punishment but there are more problems. Ron Dennis' position is under threat and his position may be untenable. McLaren will have to redesign the Ferrari affected areas and it seems investment money is hard to find. Pressure from the Spanish sponsors may have forced McLaren to put De La Rosa in the 2nd car. Thankfully, Kovalainen has got the 2nd seat at McLaren.

This could make McLaren less of a force in 2008 and could see them slip behind a couple of teams.

It's 2007 until my calendar says otherwise. :)

I'll sort something out in a few weeks. Got a few ideas.

Looks likely he'll be off to McLaren then.

I reckon it'd make more sense to have a thread for the 2008 season now, no? :)

Predictably, with Renault's future secure (for now), Alonso is at Renault for 2008. He's alongside Piquet Jnr. I've heard that Kovalainen didn't get the drive because Renault felt he'd be a match for Alonso and didn't want to rock the boat.

A similar punishment for Renault that was given to McLaren. Guilty but not enough evidence so if anything comes out, they go down. They don't really need that much evidence if the McLaren/Ferrari case is anything to go by.

McLaren find out whether they get punished for Ferrari data on their 2008 car in February, which could really mess them up.

More fittingly, he's to test for Force India, along with Fisichella. Looks like they've both come to the ends of their F1 careers, then... though it'd be interesting to see how Fisi performs, I always had him down as a very tenacious racer, but he hasn't done so well recently, maybe it's game over after his often surprising performances for Jordan and Benetton, and some adequate racing at Renault!

Montagy, Liuzzi, Klien and van der Garde are also apparently up for the second seat. I reckon Liuzzi's most likely to get it.

The funniest story today was Ralf Schumacher throwing his name into the hat for the McLaren drive. Just do us all a favour and leave F1. I don't think my sides can take any more.

McLaren have fueled the fire in their case against Renault before the December 6th case.

Prodrive won't be on the grid for the 2008 season because of the customer car problems.

Yeah, there is always a chance that Renault could be hit by the spying thing that they have to deal with but I can't see any reason why Alonso wouldn't join Renault, seeing as all the other big options are pretty much gone now.

Slick tyres are being used in certain tests in the hope of bringing them back in 2009. Seeing as there is no tyre war going on, why not?

Flavio virtually begging Alonso to sign on the line.  Though with no where else to go, I think it's a cert.

Timo Glock takes the Toyota drive. I'm not sure if he's the guy to change their fortunes but he seems decent enough. He will probably be a marked improvement than Ralf Schumacher.

Appeal rejected, Raikkonen champion, dangerous precedent set. Get that rule clarified or there will be teams who will exploit it.

All change at Honda as they hire Ross Brawn as team principal. I must admit that it was a big surprise, especially considering his loyalty to Ferrari and even more surprising seeing that Todt has stepped down. He's been replaced by Domenicali.

And then there were the Toyota emplyess who indulged in a bit of industrial espionage as well?

I'm not surprised this has come up, teams will always be looking for a competitive edge, seemingly by any means. Red Bull and Toyota hiring prominent staff, etc...

The spying thing is all one great big circle. They are all spying on each other. McLaren on Ferrari, Renault on McLaren etc ending up with Ferrari spying on a team.

Spying is nothing new in F1. There was loads of it going on in the past but instead of team spies going and snooping around, it seems like employees are just handing it over to other teams. :)

I think spying should be encouraged, it could bring an interesting dimension to the sport.  Each team is allowed 2 spies.  And they have to wear a trenchcoat & hat and sneak around the racing pits trying to steal ideas.  Anything they can steal and get back to their own garage with they can keep.  Naturally they can only do this during the race.  In qualifying they can reconnoiter but not take anything.
It could work I'm sure. :P

Agreed; he is talented but maybe a bit too inexperienced, but time will tell I reckon.

Looks like Renault are in a bit of trouble for spying, and so maybe the plot thickens...

Williams confirm their driver lineup for 2008: Rosberg and Nakajima. Either Williams are trying to save a bit of money by signing Nakajima or they feel he'll do a good job but I'm sure they could have found a 'better' driver.

Yep, I'm not sure how long Rosberg's contract is but when he is in his last season, Williams will find it very difficult to hold on to him, especially if Williams fail to score race wins.

It does seem a bit bizarre about Alonso but it does seem that a lot of news sites are claiming that Alonso can secure a move to Ferrari in 2009. You would think Massa's position would be the one under threat but he has a longer contract at Ferrari now than Raikkonen.

Contracts are there to be broken I guess...

But both Ferrari drivers are contract til the end of '09. Why extend Massa's contract (which only happened a few weeks ago) for that length of time if you were after Alonso?

I feel tha Rosberg will need to move to a bigger team within the next couple of seasons. I can't see the rule changes for next year mixing things up enough for Williams to suddenly become front runners. If he wants to win races he'll need to change teams, in my view.

Hamilton has said that McLaren will probably be going after Rosberg, Sutil or Kovalainen. I very much doubt that Rosberg will go, seeing that Williams have said time and time again that Rosberg is not going and he has a water tight contract. Sutil or Kovalainen would be good, although Sutil needs a bit more experience.

According to the BBC, Renault have made an offer to Alonso but they want him to be part of their long term plans and not a stop gap for a year or two so he can go and join Ferrari.

Grandprix wrote:
> I would say Kovalainen would be the most likely to go to McLaren
> if Alonso joins Renault and I hope Piquet Jnr gets the other seat
> at Renault, as I can't stand Fisichella. Otherwise, McLaren may
> go with Paffett or just take the driver Alonso replaces.

Crash.net have put up an article considering the many options, which include Alonso maybe even ending up at Toyota, or Alonso and Coulthard effectively swapping seats, but both of those seem pretty unlikely. Paffett may well join McLaren if Prodrive don't join the grid next year.

Now that is a concern, though if they take an '07 McLaren chassis and alter it to make it more or less their own; problem solved, a la Super Aguri?

Fisichella has had some brilliant seasons in the past (Outclassing Button at Benneton, scoring several impressive finishes in that woeful Jordan...), but he seems to be slipping now, I can't see him being around much longer, except maybe at a team lower down the grid. Or in DTM? :)

It depends on what viewpoint you get. On the one hand, you have Alonso who says that he wasn't get fair treatment. On the other hand, the team claimed they treated Alonso fairly and Alonso was continually alienating himself.

Sure, he has a special relationship but McLaren don't usually have a reputation as a one man team, not like teams that had Schumacher or when Alonso was at Renault.

Thing is, who will now want to partner Hamilton? He's clearly got a special relationship with the team and so no one will feel like their getting equal treatment, regardless of the equipment.

Yep, another season and they'll be at each other's throats. I heard rumours that the split is on the proviso that he doesn't join a big team, although Williams was then mentioned. I then heard Renault (obviously) and Red Bull, which was a bit of surprise but that would mean Coulthard would have to go because Webber was doing the better job.

I would say Kovalainen would be the most likely to go to McLaren if Alonso joins Renault and I hope Piquet Jnr gets the other seat at Renault, as I can't stand Fisichella. Otherwise, McLaren may go with Paffett or just take the driver Alonso replaces.

No surprises for seeing Alonso leaving McLaren.  Looks like he got off without having to pay his way out of the contract as well.  I'm pretty sure he's already made his plans for a future team, but we'll have to wait and see exactly where he ends up.  Whether it be Renault, Williams or Toyota he's not going to have an easy time staying in the points against the bigger fish unless these teams really find some renewed source of inspiration for their cars.  That said, Williams end of season races looked pretty strong.

Of course, it also leaves us with the question of who will drive alongside Hamilton next year, and if Hamilton is made to drive with negative points (as Mosley incinuated he may do) would that also affect Alonso?

November 15th will probably be the last day of the season. The appeal will be heard then and I think some punishment will be given and that will be that. Hamilton won't be handed the title in my opinion so they'll be no Ferrari appeal and I can't see BMW and Williams appealing if they get a slap on the wrist.

I think the appeal is a fitting end to the season. The Constructors Championship was won in the courtroom and the Drivers Championship will be finally decided if the appeal gets accepted, although it seems pretty much all over already.

The FIA haven't done themselves any favours. Constant meddling and a penalty to McLaren that defies belief (I still can't see the smoking gun on that issue). The fuel temperature thing is just another mess they have gotten themselves into.

The rule states I think that the temperature that the FIA provide is the one that they go with. No one else had a problem keeping inside the guidelines so even if the temperature readings were done with a guy standing out in the sun plucking random figures out of the air, they have to keep within the guidelines.

As I said, the FIA have a lot to do to get the confidence of everyone back and will have to go through everything thoroughly.

The Ferrari incident was that it wasn't illegal and was then made illegal after the race was won, so no penalty could ever be given on that.

El Viking wrote:
what about the "Illegal"
> Ferrari that won in Australia, for example?


It wasn't illegal. That's why the rule governing that aspect was actually re-written after the race. As far as I remember as well, Ferrari weren't the only ones to have to re-design after that.

Well, well done Kimi. Wish I'd had a couple of quid on him before the weekend, 10/1 in some places.

I hope this appeal get's thrown out. Mainly because if Hamilton won the championship like this, I feel it forever would be tainted somehow. In a season almost over shadowed by off-track gubbins the last 3 races were so entertaining it was all forgotten. Almost. And now this happens.

Another reason I hope the FIA are forced to throw it out is because of some comments made by Ted Kravitz in his column on ITFV F1, where he says this:

The temperatures were taken from Formula One Management data that is shown on page three of the circuit’s timing screens.But in Brazil, these temperature readings were, to put it mildly, unscientific.

Either the air temperature probe was in the sun (air temp should always be taken from the shade) or it was not calibrated correctly. This is supported by the readings of the track temperature. When the race started, the FOM screens showed the track temperature as 62 degrees. That would’ve melted even my trusty Dr Martens boots. Bridgestone measured the track temp at a more usual 48 degrees.

The weather experts from Meteo France, who sit in a small container within the circuit measuring the weather to internationally accepted standards and accuracy, said the ambient temperature (in the shade) never exceeded 34 degrees.

So if the FIA can't even agree with the temperature with their own partners, it's a sorry state of affairs.

I currently have a dim view of the FIA after this season. After punishing McLaren so heavily for the actions of a rogue employee, how did Ferrari escape some sort of punishment, as one of their employees allowed McLaren to get the data in the first place.

I also think the FIA have meddled far too much this season, with the top example springing to mind being Hungary qualifying. If Alonso had held up another team, then he should be punished, but when it's between team mates, let the team sort it out. We (the fans - who pay for F1, incidentally) we robbed of would could have been a fantastic race between Alonso & Hamilton sharing the front row.

Onto McLaren themselves, they did really well with this whole equality between drivers. They both won the same number of races & they both scored the same number of points. You can't get any more equal than that. It's just a shame (for them) that Kimi got 1 point more...

Night races are great. I went to see a BTCC event when they were doing night races and it was brilliant. It's a shame they don't do them anymore. I'm assuming it will be well floodlit as I can't see them taken a chance since they've been banging the safety drum for a while.

The FIA say there will be a 10 year freeze on engines and that's fine but I think change will happen before the 10 years are up. Of course, this may change again because the teams, from what I've heard, are trying to come up with alternatives because they don't want to be restricted like this.

F1 changes for next season

A night race should be interesting.  More restrictions on car development coming though.  F1 is turning into GP2.

Agreed, it's in the name of justice largely; Hamilton wants to win championships outright, and McLaren haven't exactly got a fair deal this season.

The season already is a mockery. I think McLaren are right here. You have to stop teams taking advantage of the rules in this case, particularly if there is a performance advantage, however slight.

I think Raikkonen's title is safe and I don't think McLaren want the title this way either. They are appealing out of principle.

I think punishing Ferrari at this point would make a complete mockery of the entire season. To be honest though, you reap what you sow. All through this season there has been some questionable rule-breaking going unpunished.

I'm surprised that only McLaren are appealing. A DQ would have benefitted other teams. Hopefully some other teams will get involved.